Psyker

Discussions pertinent to the rules rewrite

Moderator: Artemis

Re: Psyker

Postby sienf » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:10 am

Phil, I see the trade-off you're going for: psychic powers are suddenly more dangerous, but also more powerful. I think the concern (and this is me guessing and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone with an existing psyker character) is also around the fact that, when choosing to play a psyker, this is not what existing players signed up for. They signed up for okayish risk for okayish powers. And you're changing it to a very different game under their feet. Again, though, just a guess.

I've a question regarding some of the powers. Before, you used to be able to affect, say, a weapon. Now, most of the powers seem to implicitly target the psyker, e.g. TK Shield, Chameleon, Flesh Like Iron, etc. Do they only affect yourself, or can they be targeted at another? Heal isn't actually worded any differently from them - can you heal other people?

Also, what's the ruling on "for one combat"/"for the remainder of the combat"/"over the next combat"? (NB: You may wish to unify the language if those are equivalent.) I know you can draw before combat, but does that mean I can do it at base before "getting in the lander" and have it up until the first call of Combat Ends/we get on the return lander?
User avatar
sienf
Midshipman
Midshipman
Lorelai Sachern, Houses Vicher and Corophasian
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:04 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: Psyker

Postby Artemis » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:51 am

Phil, I see the trade-off you're going for: psychic powers are suddenly more dangerous, but also more powerful. I think the concern (and this is me guessing and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone with an existing psyker character) is also around the fact that, when choosing to play a psyker, this is not what existing players signed up for. They signed up for okayish risk for okayish powers. And you're changing it to a very different game under their feet. Again, though, just a guess.


I am very conscious of the change, it was an explicit design aim to make psykers feel more like how psykers in the 40K universe should feel.

I've a question regarding some of the powers. Before, you used to be able to affect, say, a weapon. Now, most of the powers seem to implicitly target the psyker, e.g. TK Shield, Chameleon, Flesh Like Iron, etc. Do they only affect yourself, or can they be targeted at another? Heal isn't actually worded any differently from them - can you heal other people?

I've worked through the powers and given explicit statements of whether they can be used on allies.

Also, what's the ruling on "for one combat"/"for the remainder of the combat"/"over the next combat"? (NB: You may wish to unify the language if those are equivalent.) I know you can draw before combat, but does that mean I can do it at base before "getting in the lander" and have it up until the first call of Combat Ends/we get on the return lander?

I've done my best to unify the language since I was going through to include whether the power could affect allies anyway, also included an explanation at the start about precasting. The short answer to the final query is yes, but the proviso I am strongly stressing is that the psyker must be going on the mission as it was always one of the weakest parts of other systems that mages were expected to put all their buffs on the fighters who went out to do the thing which isn't something I wanted to encourage.

edit. are there any other outstanding queries, there's been a few instances where the question has been asked both on boards and through other channels so I feel like I'm up to date with answering but might have missed some?
User avatar
Artemis
Rules Ref
Rules Ref
Shane-O
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Re: Psyker

Postby mindwanders » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:40 pm

Having re-read the rules on red beads, you are right Orev, those are way, way worse than the blue ones. I had it in my head that after you lost all your Fortitude that just became lose one body and one vital, not reduce max body and vitality.

My Fortitude 1 psyker could effectively take himself out of the whole combat with one bad draw and there's nothing anyone else can do to help.
Gordon McDonald
Captain Bartholomew Noxof the Milady De Winter
Former Ref
google.com/+GordonMcDonald
User avatar
mindwanders
Lord-Captain
Lord-Captain
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Psyker

Postby mindwanders » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:25 am

Can you use per day skill boosts to soak your first few red beads, then when you have burned through the temp fortitude activate it again for another set of temp levels you can burn through?

If you can, does it result in you becoming chaos spawn on combat ends?
Gordon McDonald
Captain Bartholomew Noxof the Milady De Winter
Former Ref
google.com/+GordonMcDonald
User avatar
mindwanders
Lord-Captain
Lord-Captain
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 8:40 pm

Re: Psyker

Postby sienf » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:12 pm

Artemis wrote:I've done my best to unify the language since I was going through to include whether the power could affect allies anyway, also included an explanation at the start about precasting. The short answer to the final query is yes, but the proviso I am strongly stressing is that the psyker must be going on the mission as it was always one of the weakest parts of other systems that mages were expected to put all their buffs on the fighters who went out to do the thing which isn't something I wanted to encourage.


I'm all for encouraging the psykers to go out, too, if you want their powers :)

I can't see any additional explanation on precasting, though (either in the post on p3 in this thread or one in the other thread). I think there's still some clarification needed, especially where my two fields of question intersect.

Say you have psyker X who is going on a linear, but chooses to buff person Y for whatever reason with something like TK Shield, Sense Blow or Preternatural Awareness for whatever reason. I'd assume pre-drawing in that case genuinely happens before the linear - as in the power use hits then as does the fallout (cf. "All effects either take place when using your first power of the combat or at combat ends if you use no powers."). Is that something that can happen at base or does it happen in a lander (I, for one, don't want to have to ref a random demon appearing in a lander, should something very unfortunate happen en route to a linear) or can it only feasibly happen upon landing before proceeding?

Sorry if I'm being really picky about this... Just trying to work out mechanics. Thanks for adding all the notes about targeting :)
User avatar
sienf
Midshipman
Midshipman
Lorelai Sachern, Houses Vicher and Corophasian
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:04 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: Psyker

Postby Artemis » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:01 pm

mindwanders wrote:Can you use per day skill boosts to soak your first few red beads, then when you have burned through the temp fortitude activate it again for another set of temp levels you can burn through?

If you can, does it result in you becoming chaos spawn on combat ends?


The first part seems reasonable. Though you wouldn't be able to activate it again during the same combat, but if you got into several combats over a day that seems legit.
There is the potential to be holding off turning into a spawn by a skill boost item keeping you intact enough but in practical terms you're probably a good way stuffed if you get into that situation anyway.
User avatar
Artemis
Rules Ref
Rules Ref
Shane-O
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Re: Psyker

Postby Artemis » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:07 pm

sienf wrote:*snip*

Say you have psyker X who is going on a linear, but chooses to buff person Y for whatever reason with something like TK Shield, Sense Blow or Preternatural Awareness for whatever reason. I'd assume pre-drawing in that case genuinely happens before the linear - as in the power use hits then as does the fallout (cf. "All effects either take place when using your first power of the combat or at combat ends if you use no powers."). Is that something that can happen at base or does it happen in a lander (I, for one, don't want to have to ref a random demon appearing in a lander, should something very unfortunate happen en route to a linear) or can it only feasibly happen upon landing before proceeding?

Sorry if I'm being really picky about this... Just trying to work out mechanics. Thanks for adding all the notes about targeting :)


Interesting happenings should kick off upon landing to keep the effect discrete to the combat and ensure the psyker goes on and is at risk from the combat on the away mission. Doing it before or while on the lander could result in the psyker having a bad draw and wanting to back out of the mission so the effects should always be delayed to an appropriate point of no return.
User avatar
Artemis
Rules Ref
Rules Ref
Shane-O
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Re: Psyker

Postby horzabora » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:10 am

I think a key point that has been brought up is that one negative consequence is more renewable than another (specifically, you're correct that red beads are worse). I'll have a think on this, as I'm sure Phil will.

In fact, I'm going to try and make a spreadsheet now to run me an appropriate sample.
Rob Collins
Creative Director: Conflict Resolution
Lead Storyteller: Inquisition Chronicles
Storyteller: No Rest for the Wicked
"A good soldier obeys without question. A good officer commands without doubt."
User avatar
horzabora
Storyteller
Storyteller
Creative Director
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Psyker

Postby horzabora » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:29 am

I would just like to say I failed probability at uni. I remember why. Head hurts, going to put this damn spreadsheet down and go to bed now.

:P
Rob Collins
Creative Director: Conflict Resolution
Lead Storyteller: Inquisition Chronicles
Storyteller: No Rest for the Wicked
"A good soldier obeys without question. A good officer commands without doubt."
User avatar
horzabora
Storyteller
Storyteller
Creative Director
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Psyker

Postby horzabora » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:17 pm

My apologies for making this update so late in the day, but I don't think anyone will mind.

I have updated the psychic rules to change the following elements.

The effects of red beads have been reduced to VITAL SINGLE - this may be altered pending playtest results (by which I mean, after the next game).

I have updated the negative effect for red beads to begin at -4 and run from -5 to -8 inclusive. I have also altered these effects to make them less harsh/disabling from play, but still brutal, but hopefully cool/fun to roleplay with buckets of fake blood brutal.

I have updated the negative effects for blue beads to make them less 'you can't use your powers' and more 'you struggle to control/want to use your powers'.

In both cases I have retained a brutally harsh/near fatal -4 effect. But statistically speaking I find it extremely unlikely it will effect anyone.

This is close to the wire, but I wanted to address the concerns - if you have any further concerns regarding the new effects, let me know. They are obviously meant to be punitive, but not without warrant (i.e. you've taken on too much risk).
Rob Collins
Creative Director: Conflict Resolution
Lead Storyteller: Inquisition Chronicles
Storyteller: No Rest for the Wicked
"A good soldier obeys without question. A good officer commands without doubt."
User avatar
horzabora
Storyteller
Storyteller
Creative Director
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Previous

Return to Rules 2.0 Rewrites

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest