Sage

Discussions pertinent to the rules rewrite

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Sage

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:27 pm

Well Read
You gain an effective +1 to any three Knowledge skills of your choice. These choices are permanent. This may grant you an effective level above Advanced at character creation but may not raise your effective level above Epic.

Basic
Stroke of Genius
Once per combat you may turn over a Lore Card and ask the GM what one of the symbols means. In events where lore cards are not in use, you may prompt an ST for minor information or clues about unfamiliar symbols, writings, creatures or objects. They will answer on a case by case basis.
  • Upgrade: You may discern two symbols cards per use.
    Was:
    Upgrade: You may discern two symbols on the card.
  • Upgrade: Upgrade: You may use this ability 3 times per combat.
Seen That Before
Three times per day you may, on coming across unfamiliar symbols, writings, creatures or objects, recognise it sufficiently to know which Lores and Forbidden Lores would be required to understand it fully.
  • Upgrade: You may ask a question of the ST about the target and they will tell you which Lore is required to answer it.
  • Upgrade: Upgrade: You may use this ability 6 times per day.

Was:
Once times per Encounter, you may, on coming across unfamiliar symbols, writings, creatures or objects, recognise it sufficiently to know what lore would be required to understand it fully. This does not grant you any tangible information. For instance, on seeing an eldar carving, you would recognise it as a Xenos marking, rather than heretical or technical
  • Upgrade: 3 times per Encounter
  • Upgrade: This now gives you some extremely general information. For instance, on seeing an eldar carving, you would recognise it as Eldar, but gain no further information.

Considered Opinion
Pick a Knowledge skill. This choice is permanent. Three times per day, you may spend ten minutes of roleplay to gain an effective +1 bonus to a single use of that skill.
  • Upgrade: You may pick another skill to use with this talent
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent six times per day.
Practical – Intermediate
Put into Practise
Pick a skill category other than Knowledge. This choice is permanent. Once per day, you may gain an effective +1 to any one skill from that skill category for a single combat.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent to boost two skills from that category instead
Pens to Swords
Once per day, you may spend ten minutes roleplaying with someone to grant them a bonus from the below list related to a Knowledge skill you possess at Intermediate or higher. This bonus does not have to be used immediately, but if not used will expire at time out.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day
  • Upgrade: You may now grant two people the bonus when using this talent
Bonuses:
Forbidden Lore: Archeotech - Archeotech card for technical decks does not apply against deck limit for one Combat
Forbidden Lore: Daemons - +1 damage vs Daemons for one combat
Forbidden Lore: Heresy - +1 Interrogation for one Combat when questioning heretics
Forbidden Lore: Mutants - +1 Interrogation for one Combat when questioning mutants
Forbidden Lore: Navigators - +1 bargain when dealing with those of the Navis Houses.
Forbidden Lore: Psykers - +1 Interrogation for one Combat when questioning Psykers
Forbidden Lore: Warp +1 Integrity for a combat
Forbidden Lore: Xenos +1 damage against a specific xenos species for one combat
Language: Binaric Cant - May re-use a card in their Cogitator Hacking deck as if it had not already been played
Language: Chaos - +1 to a Trade/Influence skill for one Combat when dealing with that species
Language: Eldar - +1 to a Trade/Influence skill for one Combat when dealing with that species
Language: High Gothic - +1 Interrogation for one Combat when dealing with nobles or clergy
Language: Low Gothic - +1 Leadership for one Combat when dealing with non-nobles
Language: Ork - +1 to a Trade/Influence skill for one Combat when dealing with that species
Language: Tau. - +1 to a Trade/Influence skill for one Combat when dealing with that species
Lore: Archaeology - +1 to a lore skill of your choice
Lore: Astromancy - +1 to Warp Navigation for one Combat
Lore: Biology - +1 to Medicae for one Combat
Lore: Chymistry - Resist Toxic 1/day
Lore: Ecclesiarchy - +1 Leadership for one Combat when dealing with clergy.
Lore: Genealogy - +1 bargain when dealing with those of high birth.
Lore: Justice - +1 Interrogation for one Combat when dealing with Criminals
Lore: Legend - +1 Exploration for one Combat
Lore: Military - +1 Leadership for one Combat when dealing with Guard or Navy
Lore: Occult - +1 Integrity for a combat
Lore: Tactica Imperialis - +1 Vitality for 1 combat

Knowledge – Intermediate
Expert Opinion
Pick a Knowledge skill. This choice is permanent. Once per day, you may spend ten minutes of role-play to gain an effective +2 bonus to a single use of that skill. This does not stack with Considered Opinion.
  • Upgrade: You may pick another skill to use with this talent.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day
Efficient Researcher
When utilising your Knowledge skills in downtime, you get an extra 15% towards completing your task.
  • Upgrade: This talent now provides an extra 30% instead
  • Upgrade: Your allies may now benefit from your research. Three members of your crew may gain an extra 10% points from using Knowledge skills during an endeavour

Practical – Advanced
Whispered Insight
Once per event/downtime cycle, you may choose an organisation within the sector. For the remainder of the event, or for your downtime period, you may act as if you have a Significant Hidden Influence within that organisation for the purposes of gaining information only.
  • Upgrade: You may now choose two organisations to have a Hidden Influence in, or use once each in event and downtime
Was:
Whispered Insight
Once per game/downtime cycle, you may choose an organisation within the sector. For the remainder of the game, or for your downtime period, you may act as if you have a Significant Hidden Influence within that organisation for the purposes of gaining information only.

Fascinating...
Your practical knowledge in your field is nearly unparalleled. Where others would take months of research to discover how to utilise the artefacts you find on your travels, you can almost instinctively operate them.
Three times per day you may actively interact with unfamiliar symbols, writings, creatures, objects or situations linked to a knowledge skill you possess at Expert or higher without the need for further research.
Examples:
Forbidden Lore: Demonology - Interact with a summoning ritual to disrupt it, or complete it.
Forbidden lore: Xenos - Operate a complex alien weapon
Lore: Archaeotech - Activate/operate a complicated archaeotech device
  • Upgrade: You will now be warned what the negative consequences of your hasty actions may be to your character and your friends.
was:
Once per Encounter you may actively interact with unfamiliar symbols, writings, creatures, objects or situations linked to a knowledge skill you possess at Expert or higher without the need for further research.


Knowledge – Advanced
Lead Researcher
Once per downtime, you may choose an endeavour in which you are participating. All Lore skill contributions from all participants count as one level higher for the purpose of determining success as long as you are contributing a Knowledge skill.
  • Upgrade: This talent now applies to all Knowledge skill contributions
Knowledge of the Past
Once per day, you may ask a Storyteller one short question about an artefact, being, or place tied to a Knowledge skill. This skill always provides full and accurate information.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day.
Was:
Knowledge of the Past
Once per day, you may ask a Storyteller one yes/no question about an artefact, being, or place tied to a Knowledge skill. This skill always provides full and accurate information.
  • Upgrade: You may now use this talent three times per day.
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Re: Sage

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:28 pm

The bonuses for Pens to Swords aren't final yet. They're the product of brainstorming rather than a definitive list.
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Re: Sage

Postby Bear » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:11 pm

Can the skills picked for Considered Opinion and Expert Opinion be the same, and do you get a total of +3 if you spend twenty minutes in total (for both talents)?
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Re: Sage

Postby Yoda » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:22 pm

Yes, you may pick the same skills.

No, they do not stack.
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Re: Sage

Postby Cathtice » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:53 am

I know I've already said this by email, but I may as well post here for anyone else to laugh at my first world problems and pass comment...

The thing that I see immediately is the giant, forlorn hole where Stroke of Genius used to be. I admit, I had a moment of 'WAAH! You took away my shiny!'; but then I realised that what I really meant was 'Waah! Now I have to actually buy Lores instead of relying on one ridiculously jammy Basic power to find out all the plot!', so I can see your reasoning behind it. ;)

Anyhow; if there's still a slot available for some kind of research-based knowledge, I'd be interested in a very powered down Stroke of Genius - maybe Archive Diving or somesuch; take a half hour out of game while you check the books, and get a metaphorical Lore/FLore skill at, say, 3 for one question?

Pens to Swords examples you've already said are under construction, so: suggestions!
Lore: Legend for +1 Exploration?
Lore: Occult for +1 Integrity? ('Don't read that aloud!')
Lore: Tactica for -1 Crew combatant/+1 Stealth/free ambush?
Lore: Heresy for -1 Integrity? (...Yeah, look, some knowledge is just a _stupid_ idea. ;P)

Whispered Insight moving to us from - er, who got it before? Seneschals? But anyhow, it seems an odd fit to me; it's about influence rather than knowledge. I'm not sure of your reasoning behind it, unless we start letter-writing campaigns. What seems more thematic to me, if you want the Old Boys' Network/letter-writing thing in there, is gaining access to rumours/information from an organisation, rather than being able to actively use influence over it. I admit, this isn't nearly as useful, but it seems a little more appropriate for a Sage. In order to keep it in a similar bracket, maybe use it to gain access to specific Forbidden Lores?

Knowledge of the Past has a slightly odd write-up - 'One yes/no question' vs 'full...information' seem contradictory. Does that imply we get a very enthusiastic Yes/No, or that it's 'one simple question' rather than just Y/N? I note that it does a lot of what Stroke of Genius did, just at Adv instead of Basic; if that's another reason for getting rid of SoG, it's fair enough, if very hard work on our poor, poor XPs... ;P

Over all, I don't think you've done much majorly that I'm sad about outside of taking away SoG; it makes sense, and I like the Talents that let Lores have some buffs in-game - it feels less like our job is to hide behind tables and shout clues at people. ;)
"Knowledge is power. Guard it well."
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Re: Sage

Postby Designer Bloodstain » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:29 pm

Yeah...

Missing that stroke of genius already. :(

I do get why it is gone though because it was absolutely amazing for how early you could get it. I shall miss being able to quickly brute force my way to answers but I do agree that some sort of lowered powered replacement ability would be handy.

I like how these changes make it so we have more stuff that buffs things and changes stuff during uptime so we don’t have to spend so much time out of play. I quite liked the way the two branches of the Sage talents were essentially sanctioned knowledge/means and forbidden knowledge/means so it would be good to see a little more of that theme return perhaps?
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Re: Sage

Postby Yoda » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:37 am

It's occurred to me that I should explain some of the changes.

The new split:
We decided that rather than having a "Forbidden Knowledge"/"Sanctioned Knowledge" split with rather similar powers on either side, we would express more of a "Practical Use of Knowledge"/"Pure Knowledge" split. It made some of the talents more useful (and harder to write upgrades for) and meant that there was more uptime uses of your knowledge.

Stroke of Genius:
We removed lammies from the system a while ago and the talent depended entirely on their existence really. Would people be interested in a talent that gave them temporary levels of a Knowledge skill they don't have in its place?

Whispered Insight:
No change here - this has always been a Sage talent. ;)

Pens to Swords
It is our plan to try and have a bonus for each Knowledge skill. Suggestions to help with this welcome!
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Re: Sage

Postby Cathtice » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:28 am

Whispered Insight:
No change here - this has always been a Sage talent.


...Clearly I paid _no_ attention to powers I didn't have the points for. Oops. :)
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Re: Sage

Postby mindwanders » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:46 am

We still need to come up with ideas for the 2nd Basic talent. Anyone got any suggestions?

I heard someone mention a bonus to taking cover, but I can't seem to find it any more. Would a defensive combat ability interest the sages?

Something like this maybe?

Take Cover
You may go prone while out of cover and receive the benefits of being in cover, if you are in cover you only take the effects of every third shot. If you attack, crawl or stand up you loose this benefit.
Upgrade: You may now crawl and maintain the Cover effect.
While: Once per combat, while you are behind Cover you may Revitalise Self 2.

Maybe a little powerful for a basic power, but only at keeping sage characters alive if they try and stay out of the fight.
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Re: Sage

Postby Sparks » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:51 am

Pens to Swords: Oh my word. I've been considering a second minor archetype, and I think I just found it. That's brilliant.

As a Lore: Tactica Imperialis Skill, how about +1 Vitality? Telling people how to act and move, to avoid getting shot.

Or, as a slightly more curveball-y one, how about +1 Awareness? As you brief people about watching their surroundings, checking their corners, and likely ambush points?


Also: Is there a minimum lore level to be able to give the bonuses off the skill? Obviously, you need to actually HAVE the skill, but do you need it at 2 or 3? It kind of makes sense that you need to be pretty good in order to have that much of an effect.
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