Scout

Discussions pertinent to the rules rewrite

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Re: Scout

Postby mindwanders » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:29 am

Security Evasion is been improved as it was underpowered.
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Re: Scout

Postby Jaxx » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:04 pm

Heya,

Re: Intermediate talents, do I need to take the first intermediate assassin talent, then the second.

So what lies hidden, then the other

Or, can I take them out of order?

Thanks
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Re: Scout

Postby NeillC » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:38 pm

You pick them up in order, then you pick one of the two Advanced Talents for your tree.
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Re: Scout

Postby Artemis » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:38 am

Currently looking at putting together a guide for Stealth vs Awareness. Would be very interested to see people provide pictures, videos or links showing what they think is and isn't acceptable as far as being in cover goes for the purposes of stealth. Either on here or emailed to rules@norestforthewicked.org.uk please?
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Re: Scout

Postby Jaxx » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Couple of things

I'm looking for the rules book/something on skills. Not a clue where that's found. The skills pages are empty. It's very, very frustrating.

Secondly - is it me or is the assassin tree not really... assassin-y anymore. It just emulates stuff you can do with a gun if you buy the right one, and with the gun, or this one is mine, you can do it all the time.

Where's the Fatal calls? Or the cool takedowns etc?

I feel like the Talents could be much more thematic, instead of being something that could just as easily be done with an endeavour and as such, I could just spend my xp elsewhere. I might be reading it wrong, but I can't actually check properly as I can't find the rules document.
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Re: Scout

Postby Andrew » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:41 am

This has been an issue since the start of the game and is caused by trying to balance assassin type powers against more straightforward combat powers. It's very easy for the assassin to either be oppressivly powerful or next to useless.

The last time I was involved in such discussions the thinking was to give arch militants and scouts different signature calls. Knockdown, disarm and disable for AM, Stun, through, Vital and Shieldbreaker for Scout.

Another point is Scouts are played so the archetype can't be too terrible. In fact I think there might even be more than there are AM but I could well be mis-remembering a conversation I only half paid attention to a good while ago.
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Re: Scout

Postby Yoda » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:46 am

The major advantage the "assassin" tree gets? Shieldbreaker. Being able to call Shieldbreaker even 1/combat is a big thing, and it's all themed around sneaking up to someone and getting them without them being able to defend themselves. In theory (and with a poisoned weapon), an "assassin" Scout could Unseen up behind someone and call Single Toxic Vital Shieldbreaker, stopping them from crying out, using their Vitality to soak the damage or using Shields to prevent it.

We used to, in the original rules, give the "assassin" tree a "Single Through Vital Fatal" call which could not be augmented in any way and had to be called from Stealth - it was a static call and limited in use. Decisions were made to give the Scouts more flexibility in when they could use their calls and the manner in which they could do so. This was part of the general rewrite we did to Archetypes to determine how calls were distributed, and several calls got shuffled around or restricted to certain archetypes. The thematic chosen for the Scouts was of the "get in close and personal and strike from stealth" type of combatant, which led to the "assassin" focus on melee attacks. Ranged combatants were better served under the Arch-Militant Archetype rather than trying to shoehorn ranged alternatives into the Scout trees so we removed ranged options from Scouts at that point.

In short, Scouts using guns are better served by the ranged branch of the Arch-Militant Archetype and this is by design. We chose the focus of Scouts to be on blades in the dark.

I do find it interesting that this has come up more than two years after the last substantive change to this archetype, however. What's brought it up?
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Re: Scout

Postby Jaxx » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:19 am

Im thinking if where to spend my xp and for a while its been on this one is mine or ecclisiarchy stuff, but I came back to assassin tree to develop my scout stuff and was like...

Oh.

But I can already do these things without spending xp...

With my bionics...

**potters off to look at skills and wishes she'd developed the tree that the rest of the scouts went up instead because then vanish**
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Re: Scout

Postby Yoda » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:40 am

Bionics won't let you call Vital on a melee attack, or call Shieldbreaker at all. The only other way to call Shieldbreaker is with the Ranged Arch-Militant Advanced Talent or with a very expensive weapon.

Tech-Priest bionics replicate some of the talent effects, but not all - and that's always a risk with cross-Archetype builds.

Psychic powers can also replicate abilities from across many archetypes, but comes with an inherent risk.

That these things can be done other ways is a feature of the system, not a bug. The advantage of talents is they can't be taken away from you. Your weapon can be Disarmed, your bionic Disabled, psychic powers can be countered or leave the psyker a mess on the floor. The "assassin" talents can be used with any melee weapon and don't need bionic recharges to be used again.
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Re: Scout

Postby Maakeff » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:48 am

Hmm. Thinking about what you've said & explained (Yoda), I'd like to request consideration for allowing use of a Scout's ranged weapons within these Assassin-tree Talents but only at close/melee range, and/or possibly only while the target is unaware. This would benefit by allowing greater flexibility in the tools used by Scout characters, while keeping to the stated theme. Shooting someone in the back of the head with a silenced firearm is just as flavourful as a knife thrust, I feel. :-)
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